Blog - Please Enjoy This Phony Debt Debate

I just don’t understand the mind set that says a person making a million dollars a year verses someone making fifty thousand dollars a year that says the one making a million should have a bigger tax against him than the other.
They both have a tax scale to go by and anyone knows the more you make the more taxes you will owe. The liberals wants to have an extra scale added just for the one making a million besides the basic one scale. There is nothing fair about double taxing someone just because he can make the million dollars legally but the government wants to tax the man illegally just because the man happens to have the knowedge and the management to make the million dollars to begin with. Besides the man making the million dollars could be the one that gives others a job so he can make a living and pay taxes also. Senators think past your nose.

Agree … there’s no reason these negotiations, or any other Congressional activities, should be hidden from the public.

@b58

You say you just don’t understand, so I’ll explain it to you:

There is a base income that allows any individual to survive and live in this country without fearing homelessness and hunger every day of their lives. You can argue whether that level of income is $30K or $50K or even $200K for a family of four. A recent study shows that somewhere around $30K minimum or so is needed by an individual to be able to live without serious deprivation, and that’s double the minimum wage of $7.25 per hour, if a person can even find 40 hours of work per week to get that. But no one can reasonably argue that anyone really needs a million to live a decent life—and those that actually think they are not “rich” on $200K really need to get out more—to just about any place in the world outside of Hollywood or Wall Street.

That’s the human argument; here’s the realistic, practical argument:

— continued on User Talk here:

User talk:Nancym

To all who do not understand where b58 is coming from. I grew up poor and my mother received 4 years of welfare from the feds. Well the incentive is to stay there because if you start making minimum wage they cut your benes. So I was determined not to live that way and I had 2 jobs throughout my life until I was in my early 30’s. We in this country are afforded equal opportunity and it is up to each individual as to what they do with that opportunity. I do not want my taxes increased anymore than the sliding scale that exist now based on your income. Those who do make hundreds of thousands or more are this countries job creators, they always have been and they always will be. They worked their bums off to have more and they should not be punished because they achieved it. For those who were born poor as I you can achieve more financial stability, it depends on how much effort you put into it, even in todays climate.

The debt talks are definitely all about smoke and mirrors. But even more amazing is to see the greedy wealth redistributionists zombies come out of the woodwork and feverishly grab at every middle class worker with a normal job, wanting to bleed out more of their substance— when the middle class is the only thing that has kept the country afloat financially. The crowd wanting more taxes are like a drowning man frantically grabbing and pulling down their rescuer as they attempt to save him. The people with any kind of non-welfare-based income making over 40k/year are already giving nearly half of that income to the destructive government black hole. Someone please explain how de-incentivizing working and innovation will save the economy?

Btw, the social security fund is NOT part of the federal budget and has no place at all in the budget discussion. Between Obamacare and the threat of eliminating social security checks, one has to wonder why Obama hates old people so much.

I’m a little confused nancym, if the programs will eventually run out of money, won’t they be “unfunded liabilities”? Especially since, as you had said, “the government OWES a bundle of money to SS that they borrowed”? Doesn’t owing money mean that it’s unfunded? If it was funded, wouldn’t it have been paid back within the same fiscal year? Just curious, not really a sticking point.

What is a sticking point with a lot of people these days is that entitlements consume so much money, and now the President has said he can’t pay seniors, even though we have enough money to do that. If nothing else, then a government shutdown and our legislatures telling us they’ll starve when they’re arguing, is the best reason to reform SS so fewer people get put on it. I mean, dang, that’s some idiotic cajones that guy has to say seniors can’t get their checks because he can’t demand we do what he says. Then he has to backpeddle when we keep pushing. Fewer people on SS, fewer poker chips to play w/

If you want to be mad at some “rich” people, start looking at the fact that we pay hundreds of $billions annually (which contributes to our national annual deficits, now around $1.5 trillion) to the 300 or so shareholders of the private international bankers known as the FED. What do they do for us in return for these billions? They print more money and hold us hostage to more of their debt. Here’s some news for you, they don’t pay ANY taxes on that money. If you want to end the debt crisis, end the unconstitutional FED.

http://www.federalbudget.com/fed.html
http://www.federalbudget.com/

Tax the rich – apparently includes many small businesses, also if all the “rich” were taxed, it would not help much. Our debt is huge, the social services, and entitlement programs will feel the pain – NOT the bureaucrats that use propaganda to get what they want/(social justice – another falsity.)
“The senators know that what they’re giving us isn’t the open debate we want, they just think we’re too ignorant to know it.”

2)
Many of those who “made it” in earlier decades make the mistake of thinking that ladder is the same one they used, when in fact, it isn’t. So they chastise those on the bottom struggling, assuming they are just lazy or stupid, when in fact what most of those people want is just fair play.

Those who denigrate those who call for fair play are like ex-smokers who become fanatics against smoking, like the delusional Alan West in my state of Florida.

Is it really beyond imagination to understand that MANY people work really, really hard also, all their lives, and not all of them end up wealthy in the end, for a whole host of reasons that do not include just lack of ambition or stupidity?

(continued)

without demand for the goods or services their is no reason for the guy with money to create that job

That statement, and the one you just made, I can agree with those. But still, the rich who make over $200/250k, they’re the ones who open the positions to be filled, not someone making $50k (and probably not someone making JUST $250k a year either to be honest). If we lose the rich, we lose the people the banks depend on for revenue. We also lose whatever positions are opened under those rich people. And that means the poor people can’t get a line of credit (which they shouldn’t do anyways, they’re poor) to open a business and become rich.

Furthermore, those who advocate imposing higher taxes on rich incomes must understand what an income tax really means: it means the federal government claims ownership over a percentage of your labor and reserves the right to take its claim. Now since slavery is a way of claiming ownership over 100% of a person’s labor, those who advocate for higher income taxes are advocating for making hard working, honest living Americans more like slaves. If you want fair taxation, tax what people voluntarily consume,not on what they earn. Finally, the people have every right to demand spending cuts to entitlement programs, since total combined unfunded liabilities for medicare, medicaid and SS are at $55 trillion. One cannot squeeze enough taxes out of America to pay for that. Cut everything now!

It is the wages of the average man/women that satisfies demand, and it is that demand that creates jobs not people with money.

Seriously? Let me ask you this then. How can someone working retail or customer service get paid more? Don’t they have to go to someone with money, who uses that money to hire someone, or can they just create it out of thin air? Now, I will agree that demand for a job will put people in that job, but someone with money first has to open the job to be filled.

Let’s put it in other terms, and imagine the minimum wage law was repealed, and in theory, employers could set ANY rate. Would people work for less than $5? I’m sure some would, if they were desperate enough, but majority of people wouldn’t. So, yes, demand for a job will fill the job. But can someone with no money, getting paid $5/hour, afford to higher someone for more than $5/hour? No, they can’t. They have to be hired by someone else making much higher than what they’re offering.

“I can get someone to give me investment money to open a business, without ever selling a product.”

Ok go open a Buggatti dealership and sell Vayron’s in Benton, MI. You will find their is not a single “investor” that stupid.

“I don’t actually know if anyone is willing and able to purchase my product.”

If you don’t study this and have it as part of your business plan you will NEVER get a business loan. I don’t know a single lender that doesn’t do some level of checking on this sort of thing before they lend.(I am somewhat familiar with the process of small business loans =p)

“BEFORE they sell a product, a job wouldn’t be opened to be filled, and a customer won’t be able to buy anything. Thus we need the rich first.”

Man and the American dream where built from the bottom up, Only fools and would be Gods believe they where built from the top down. Good lord how do you think things worked before we had lots of rich people to give us their golden showers.

luminous, now you’re just not reading and giving the whole picture

“I don’t actually know if anyone is willing and able to purchase my product.”

Had you read the entire paragraph, the above statement would’ve been followed with:

I have a very good idea that they will, but I can’t tell the future, so I open my business and hire an employee HOPING someone will walk in.

And you are correct, “If you don’t study this and have it as part of your business plan you will NEVER get a business loan”. But nobody, not even the best research will tell you if you’ll have a customer on day 1. If you’re actually familiar with this, then you know research can fail.

Man and the American dream where built from the bottom up

Not true. A good portion of owners/producers already had money before they opened their doors over here. And regardless of the type of currency, someone with chickens (rich) must barter for soap (also rich). Non-rich worked for the rich, ie. farmers versus farmhands.

The federal government has created this budget mess, they have created this massive public debt, they borrowed massive amounts of money and they are expecting your kids and grandkids to pay for it, and are targeting the rich to do so. Is that fair or just? Look its easy to target the rich with classist and bias arguments like “They don’t need that much money” and “no one can reasonably argue that anyone really needs a million to live a decent life” but this does not justify the federal government confiscating more wealth as a result. I am suggesting that taxing incomes is totally immoral for people of all income brackets, and it is even more immoral to target the rich to pay for the federal government’s disastrous fiscal policy.

i hope no one in congress is foolish enough to pat themselves on the back once a compromise is reached. it is an embarrassment to the highest extreme that both parties put their own re-election worries ahead of figuring out what to do with the peoples money. not their money. the peoples money. if we default will china repossess our elected officials? just wondering.

“…that anyone really needs a million to live a decent life…”

really? so now the majority decides how much money an individual has or should have? really? i thought everyone had the right of the pursuit of happiness and i don’t think it included the population to vote on what i consider happiness. not if i earned it. or is the lesson now, dont work hard. let everyone else take care of you?