I have no disagreements with anything you’ve just said. At this point we just vary to the slightest degree in our faith in free markets. The past years have shown quite decisively that free markets can fail. They can punish consumers excessively and they can produce giant corporations, large enough to tap our government like a huge piggy bank while still paying their executives enormous amounts of money and escaping any degree of oversight.

Our country is at a crossroads, and I for one believe it should protect the free market at all costs. This legislation I see as protecting the free market from itself. Take me for instance, as a young, self employed workaholic student, I’d never participate in the old insurance system. Now that there’s some degree of regulation in the Open Insurance Market, I don’t feel like I’d be buying snake oil.

Don’t kid yourself that there is anyone who falls into the category of Believer of Big Government. It’s simply a matter of choosing your sacrifices. We all want a government big enough to tackle anti-trust when needed, to defend the borders at very least and to protect the population. This falls into that first category while also increasing solvency, something that slipped very far from our fingers in our response to both real and perceived threats over the past decade.

If you were ever in the armed forces, you’d know that, although the best on the planet, there is HUGE ineffeciencies and waste. Same with TVA, police, etc. By the way, how’s the Energy department doing with their goal of eliminating dependence on foreign oil??

Yep, free markets aren’t a great solution, just better than anything else ever invented. When was the last time you saw a government agency of any size save money and return it to the taxpayer?? There is no incentive to do so, and every incentive to spend as much as you possibly can get away with every year. Free markets punish those who do this quite effectively. Their products get too pricey, and stop selling. Government has no such check and balance.

It’s tough not to be simple in 1000 characters! The problem with insurance is that it’s a largely disreputable industry, so we very much agree that it’s regrettable that the government subsidized it so much years ago. Too bad the republican party threw a tantrum instead of participating in the solution. It would be great to have other, smaller solutions to examine. This is what we’ve got and it will probably go a long way to leashing an industry known more for its reputation of fraud than promoting health.

As for what the government does better than private industry? The US Armed forces personnel represent the best and most professional at what they do. We tried to privatize aspects of war with huge consequences if you remember Blackwater’s excessive use of force. The police are better than the mob, and the TVA is better than Enron was.

i’m in your face, but not violently. with that said, there are a lot of people who don’t know where they are and vote for the “other person” and now they’ve come to realize this is not a good thing to do. i know many republicans who still don’t have a clue as to what is going on and don’t even know about the 70 against 30 for split.

so typical of you. teabaggers. what an immature and lame thing to say. so pinko, i hope you like your new found socialist government that will lose in 2010? how is that. at least my term for you is a bit more truthful.

you’re a 30% minority. every poll that i’ve seen has shown you on the low end. get over it.

I don’t think it is that simple. By giving insurance companies a free pass on the anti trust laws, and protecting the med malpractice community, the government pretty much eliminated the free market in health care a long time ago. Now, they cure it by creating a bigger mess. What in the world makes you think the government has ever done a better job than the free market?

The “True Believers” of Big Government will love this bill. Those of us who realize that as governments get bigger and more powerful, citizens are less free, upward social and economic mobility slows, and citizens get poorer will work like heck to get this repealed. George Will articulates it best: “As America’s teetering tower of unkeepable promises grows, so does the weight of government, in taxes and mandates that limit investments and discourage job creation. America’s dynamism, and hence upward social mobility, will slow, as the economy becomes what the party of government wants it to be — increasingly dependent on government-created demand.” —columnist George Will

Yet even here we still see the majority of the people do not want this monstrosity. Yet you democrats refused to listen. November comes up fast and I can’t wait to VOTE YOU OUT.

Your health insurance already covered the uninsured through added hospital costs when uninsured people are treated. Hospitals can’t and won’t let people die in the ER before they verify insurance coverage.

This isn’t a rights based thing, it doesn’t cover all Americans, but serves to increase the insurability of those of us who are self employed or recently unemployed. Interesting that you mention car insurance, as much of the bill seems to emulate the government requirements on car insurance that most of us accept as common sense.

When did we start saying having insurance is a right? Insurance is a privilege, a benifit for those who earn it. The insurance I have comes with my job, its part of my compensation just like my pay check is. Why are we giving compensation to people who never earned it? Whats next, government run car insurance? When we start moving away from a merit-based society, society itself will collapse.

neveragain, I think you exaggerate the scale of this reform. This is one case where the money is at least accounted for. A certain other party used its house majority to engage in unilateral action on the other side of the world without even considering adding it to a budget.

There’s a clear problem with the health insurance industry; everyone agrees on this. The republican party fails time and again to do anything about it, while millions of Americans suffer needlessly to outright corruption. If the free market consistently fails, the government steps in. It’s simple cause and effect.

Fantastic, seriously. Either we get to see this country circle the drain, or we watch the career suicide of over 200 elected officials. I’m an independent, but I will never vote for another democrat for as long as I can remember the scorn I have for being betrayed like this.

I know that’s not the right frame of mind, but I doin’t even care anymore.

Is anyone out there good enough to tackle section 3401 and break it down for us? According to the CBO it’s the source of 146.7 billion in debt reduction over 10 years but the wording in the bill is at best cryptic.

The social security act section 1886 that it references is no less cryptic.

“Because each state has it’s own set of rules in regards to what their package can and can not include, so most of the time the reason private insurance may be cheaper in one state rather than another is because the coverage isn’t as good as many might think.”

So to solve the problem create a nationwide private health insurance market with nationwide policies of what a package can include…and ban companies from rejecting people from pre-existing conditions. That will fix our health care system.

Who pays – The common worker.
1. You can claim the rich, the corporations, whatever, the fact is Companies “do not pay taxes” no matter what you think, wish or have been told these companies are only middlemen who relay all cost to the product they sell and we the people pay the taxes. Large Corporations are actually good and provide us jobs, investment opportunities and a place to hangout to make new friends.
2. Rich people – Why? One might sit back and wish they had that kind of money lying around but there is no reason to hate them for they do pay far more taxes then you & me and use the resources about the same as us. Reminder, these people are rich for a reason, they know ways and have the time to make money and common workers don’t in the end they will keep their money and the common worker will pay “all” of the bills.

Excellent… agree 100%. Let’s not forget the bribery used to get this through.

Article 2, section 4:
The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

Freetobeme500:
I assume you are referring to the forced insurance. Are you serious? Do you think this is the first time the gov. is forcing something on you? Case in point. Today I awoke to the sound of chainsaws. I assumed it was a neighbor doing yard work. No. My city cut down three trees in my yard and left the debries. I have no idea why. The gov can also force a citizen to sell his/her land for gov. purposes, forces citizens to have car insurance to legally drive, forces parents to send children to school, hell, they can tear down the fence in your yard if you build it too high. The list goes on and on. I babysit children for extra income and if I have more than two children in my home at a time I need a business license and a child care provider license or I risk a fine. Come on. There are a lot of things we as Americans are forced to do. The government is everywhere. This Healthcare Bill is just another piece.

Both chambers passed Health Care Bills. But both houses have to pass the exact same legislation. This is the Senate version. The version that passed the House was HR3200. The Senate wrapped their version into this bill because, according to the Constitution, all bills for raising Revenue must begin in the house (sort of a shell game there). Since both bills were different, and only the legislation that has passed both houses can go forward to the President for signature, the House had to pass the Senate version as there were not enough Senate votes to pass the original House bill.

Did you even read the issue your commenting on or just listening to people who claim they read it?

Can someone please tell me why the House voted on this bill tonight when it was passed last year by both the House and the Senate. I’m confused as to why they had to vote on it again tonight. Thanks in advance.

Well… It’s something at least. Still can’t see why we have to support the insurance companies and couldn’t just get a single payer system and call it good.

With this bill, we’ll get: a standard for Qualified Health Plans, individual options among those plans; requires those plans to provide coverage for, and not impose any cost sharing requirements for: preventive services, immunizations, and preventative screenings for women and children; reductions in the maximum limits for out-of-pocket expenses, improved Access to Medicaid, and modernizes public health systems. And provides that “nothing in this Act shall be construed to require that an individual terminate coverage under a group health plan or health insurance coverage in which such individual was enrolled on the date of enactment of this Act.”

The Reconciliation bill adds: medical loss ratio rebates, elimination of annual or lifetime limits, no cost-sharing for preventive care, increased penalties for fraud and abuse, and money and more authority for enforcement, whistle blower protection, legislates more transparency from the insurance companies.

Better than nothing.

Hard to tell what they are thinking, or why they are rejecting he bill. They never have specific complaints. It’s just seems to be a general fear of things they don’t take the time to understand.

Because they are writing law.

Can someone please explain to me in simple terms HOW we “trim” the federal deficit by $138 billion while adding 32 million uninsured? If the answer is further increase Medicare taxes on dividends/interest I’m concerned the constitutionality of coercive taking of wealth from one’s production and giving it to someone who didn’t produce it.

The bill bars the insurance industry from denying coverage to pre-existing medical conditions. Gee, insurance only WORKS by excluding “pre-existing” conditions. Example in car insurance: Can I not pay premiums, then call and get car insurance only AFTER I’ve been in an accident? This whole bill is a car wreck…

Most coercive government action I recall in my lifetime: Starting 2014, most Americans would be required for the first time to purchase insurance or face penalties if they refused. Large businesses would face fines if they did not offer good-quality coverage to their workers. Gee, I wouldn’t want to be a “large business” anytime soon then.

I disagree that "conservatives, by nature, are typically less vocal and “in-your-face” as a liberal". It is difficult to compare the extremes at either end of the scale because both can go completely overboard to the point of violence. So the question is either who goes to the extreme more often, or which are more “in-your-face” liberal moderates, or conservative moderates. I both cases, I think conservative are a little more in-your-face, but I concede that it is not by much.

good.
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