Abraham Lincoln once said,

We all declare for liberty; but in using the same word we do not all mean the same thing. With some the word liberty may mean for each man to do as he pleases with himself, and the product of his labor; while with others, the same word may mean for some men to do as they please with other men, and the product of other men’s labor. Here are two, not only different, but incompatible things, called by the same name – liberty. And it follows that each of the things is, by the respective parties, called by two different and incompatible names – liberty and tyranny.

—The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume VII, “Address at Sanitary Fair, Baltimore, Maryland” (April 18, 1864), p. 301-302.

I still notice that everyone who’s against this or any Health Care Reform Bill doesn’t complain one bit about our Senators, Congressmen, Federal Employees receiving Health Care Coverage on the back of all of us taxpayers. Why is that? Doesn’t any of you think that is wrong? Those Public Employees can actually afford to purchase their own insurance, why should we pay for it? Don’t they get enough from us in their salaries/wages? Also, I’m curious do any of those employees pay Federal income taxes?

If I want to participate in a program that covers abortion, why can’t I pay for the right to have it covered?
The program will not require you to purchase such coverage.

Additionally, you do not consider the cost of severely deformed babies that would require intensive medical care after birth and may only survive days weeks or months. Even if the mother’s life is not at risk (though all child birth has some inherent risk), this is hardly an elective procedure.

As I said, regardless of how you view the issue, I should have the right to purchase insurance that covers legal medical procedures.

If this is anything like the Baucus bill in the Senate, then the basic public health plan won’t have abortion coverage, but the “premium” plans will. Also, if this is like the Baucus bill, then all health insurance providers will be required to have some “premium” plan that will include abortion. And, even if the plan you select doesn’t cover abortion, it will have to charge you “no less than $1” as part of your premium to cover abortions for the “premium” plans.

In other words, like it or not, you’ll be paying for abortions.

I haven’t read this new bill yet, but the Chairman’s Mark that Baucus started with in September had this information in it. I also haven’t read S.1796 (the official bill) yet, but I’m sure his guidelines about paying for abortion made it into the final bill.

Car insurance is only mandatory if you own a vehicle…

So everyone in America should pay for your family’s healthcare? I think not. We raised $25,000 in a benefit for my friend’s cancer bills in ONE weekend. I think American’s need to get off their behinds and remove their hand from in front of the rest of the Americans. What the heck happened to this country?

Also, freedom. Yeah, I want the FREEDOM from paying your debt and everyone elses. Maybe the state’s should lift the ban on intrastate insurance and put the free market back into the insurance industry. —Now THAT gives you your freedom AND choice and I’M not footing the bill (and neither is your company).

Explain to me how healthcare is a right and how your health is my responsibility. Perhaps you should stop cashing your welfare check and give the money back.

Also, natural news is NOT a news source. I’m not arguing that vaccines could, sometimes have bad side effects, but most of the time they are effective in preventing disease.

Vaccines are effective in most that have them, IF the shot is a good match. Seasonal flu prevents it 70-90% of the time when there is a good match. http://www.cdc.gov/Flu/about/qa/flushot.htm

Why, do you think, do we not have Smallpox anymore? It didn’t just peter out on it’s own… Do you think it would have been better to let 1/3 of people who get a disease die, or be scarred for life (like smallpox did…)?

Interesting question. I will…. but I thought you could ‘opt out’ of Social Security with a lot of hassle?

I don’t know about unemployment benefits… I know some small businesses don’t have them, but?

What I would also put out there is that it would be better for the states to shoulder the costs than the Federal Gov’t. I dont think that forceing states to have a “public option” will even be a concerns if Insurance company’s are forced to be “not for profit”.

Then all you have to do is provide state subsidies for families on the low income side that dont qualify for medicade but still cant afford purchasing a decent plan.

Since you are an attorney then you should understand the bill is forcing citizens to purchase a private industry product which is unconstitutional as we are a somewhat free nation. Oh those bad insurance will stand to benefit by millions and millions of dollars. So I believe sir you should read the bill and not just listen to the news channels stating what they take away from the bill. This is a historical moment as it is the beginnings of the freedoms we have slowly being taken away. I don’t know about you but I do not feel it is the governments job to force me to give my personally financial accounting information to the IRS so they can take my premium share from my account when I can’t afford to send it in. Yea this is really going to help the middle class become poorer and the poor to be in devastating poverty. Woo hoo!!

That is one of the better trolls in this thread, I must admit…

OK. No problem. I can give you more, if you want. I’ve been doing lots of research on it myself.

Here is one from WHO (World Health Organization)

http://www.who.int/csr/disease/swineflu/notes/h1n1_clinical_features_20091016/en/index.html

“many severe cases occur in previously healthy young people. In these patients, predisposing factors that increase the risk of severe illness are not presently understood, though research is under way.
In severe cases, patients generally begin to deteriorate around 3 to 5 days after symptom onset. Deterioration is rapid, with many patients progressing to respiratory failure within 24 hours…"

By the way NINETEEN pediatric H1N1 deaths just last week in the US. http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/

Here is something from the CDC, talking about risks for asthma… but see statistics below..
http://www.cdc.gov/H1N1flu/qa.htm
“the percentage of 2009 H1N1 related deaths that occurred among people 0 years to 4 years was 3%; among those 5 years to 18 years was 14%; among people 19 to 24 years was 7%; among people 25 to 49 years was 33%; among people 50-64 years was 32%; and among people 65 years and older was 12%”

ON seasonal flu
“How does 2009 H1N1 flu compare to seasonal flu in terms of its severity and infection rates?”
…"Over 90% of deaths and about 60 percent of hospitalization occur in people older than 65.:

Does it really matter how many had ‘underlying conditions’… still about 30% DON’T, and these people are not usually dying at these rates with seasonal flu…

Do us all a favor and at the very least consolidate your rants into fewer posts.

I’m quite sane, thanks for the concern. I’ll not gratuitously reply in kind.

I’m awaiting the new legislation that will provide subsidies for firearm purchases. If you believe health care is a right under the Constitution and as such should be government subsidized, then you should have no problem at all with the government giving all of us money for firearms.

The difference is of course that firearms are an actual right under the 2nd Amendment, whereas health care is not in the Constitution and the “right” basis relies on liberal court interpretation. Using this logic, things we need to survive like housing, electrical power, food, water, etc. are all “rights” and should be government subsidized. BTW, the government should not be subsidizing health care or firearms.

The Obama administration, as inexperienced as they are, are also holding back some of the TARP funds (which aren’t doing any good anyway) so that they can use some of the money to get the “Blue Dogs” on board with this healthcare bill and buy their votes with pork barrel project money to their districts and state(s). Simple extortion to say the least! My friends, we are now on our way to Socialism and the elimination of the Free Market System, better known as Capitalism. Sad, very sad!

It looks like this does. There is funding to fight waste and fraud, more penalties, and some enforcement in here.

“* The U.S. Post Service was established in 1775 You have had 234 years to get it right and it is broke.

• Social Security was established in 1935. You have had 74 years to get it right and it is broke.

• Fannie Mae was established in 1938. You have had 71 years to get it right and it is broke.

• War on Poverty started in 1964. You have had 45 years to get it right; $1 trillion of our money is confiscated each year and transferred to “the poor” and they only want more.

• Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965.. You have had 44 years to get it right and they are broke.

• Freddie Mac was established in 1970. You have had 39 years to get it right and it is broke.

You have FAILED in every “government service” you have shoved down our throats while overspending our tax dollars
AND YOU WANT AMERICANS TO BELIEVE YOU CAN BE TRUSTED WITH A GOVERNMENT-RUN HEALTH CARE SYSTEM??"

“NO” to H.R.3962

You are excluded from the coverage requirement for the time residing in foreign countries [which is the main source of the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion]. See page 299.

The key is that all of this can be done with out trampling on state rights and trampling on civil liberties. Wouldnt you agree that pushing the states to address these issues would be better than having the Federal Government regulate all of this?

1990 pages of text, obfuscating a convoluted mess that is going to cost us more money for less care, and fewer choices.

What on earth makes congress think that they have the constitutional power to pass this in the first place?

I can make my own healthcare decisions. I don’t need the government’s help. Another huge waste of our money.

President Barack Obama’s job approval rating has dipped below 50 percent nationally for the first time.
For the first time, we are actually reporting the fact that a majority of Americans disagree with Obama and his policies.

Depends on what state you live in. In the state and County we live in, I think there are 6 different options to get ‘public’ health care if you don’t have private insurance.

Some have income limits, but some don’t…

Think about what you are saying. You want to take your health care financial coverage away from someone with whom you have legal recourse in the courts and give it to big government who you cannot sue and who has the power to fine you and/or put you in jail. How stupid is that? They both will control cost by denying you services

1.) 1/3 of the doctors have threatened to quit practice which means 32 million more people waiting in long lines for “quality” health care.

2.) I do not want rationed or socialized medicine. I don’t know of any Americans who run to Canada for health care.

And…
3.) I’m pro-life and shouldn’t be forced to pay for immoral women to have kill their babies.

BTW….November is coming and we will all know which way they voted. Remember they work for us, not the other way arround.

Also, please read today’s press briefing from the CDC

“. More than half the hospitalizations are in people under 25. 90% of the deaths are in people under 65. A flip-flop from what we see with seasonal flu. The pediatric deaths are high. Children have died from flu where the typing wasn’t done, but that’s an increase from last week’s number. Two-thirds of the children who died from the H1N1 virus have underlying condition that is increase their risk of this problem. "

That means 1/3 of the kids who died had NO UNDERLYING CONDITION.

http://www.cdc.gov/media/transcripts/2009/t091106.htm

It is my belief that this Healthcare bill is a somke screen used by the Obama administration to bring socialism to this country. Period!

I can’t believe this GARBAGE legislation is making its way through congress when so many Americans are against it? Who are these senator’s, who are supposed to be representing American interest, listening to if not us? These kinds of politics make me SICK!! Our politicians have been bought off, obviously!!… but I suppose that’s old news. When will America be America again?

RESTORE THE REPUBLIC!!