This, like most other bills sponsored by the republicans, will only help to strengthen the plutocracy that has been growing in the United States by increasing the gap between the wealthiest and the poorest. The income tax that currently exists is progressive, which means that the richest Americans pay more (because they can afford to pay more), but a sales tax would do the opposite. Rich people tend to spend a smaller percentage of their income than poor people, preferring to invest the remainder. This means that with a national sales tax and no income tax, lower- and middle-class Americans would actually be taxed a greater percentage of their income than the upper-class would. In a tough economy like this one where the middle-class is struggling, this is not something that we need.

I understand what you are saying. I don’t feel that our current tax structure is fair enough. Personally I feel if you buy a TV for $1500, no matter your income you should be taxed the same. Just because someone with money has the ability to save and invested doesn’t mean they should be treated differently or taxed more because they have more. Some of them have worked really hard to have more and I don’t feel they should be punished because of their hard work.

I have worked hard to get where I am now. I not going to just lay down all my hard work for someone that is not willing to work. I personally feel that a flat tax or a sales tax is the way to go. As stated above, rich or poor, you should be tax the same as any other person.

An important thing to consider is provisions to allow for a “prebate” for the taxes that would be paid living at the poverty line.

This would offset the tax burden on low-income families and individuals in the same way as the income tax rebate. You could live “tax free,” assuming your comfortable with the quality of life only spending $20k a year can get you.

This bill would also eliminate taxes on personal savings and savings for education. I understand Soichiro’s point on the proportion of investment vs spending in the upper income levels, but you also have to consider that the general cost-of-living for a wealthier individual is higher, meaning a higher tax burden.

Does anyone know the status of “capital gains?” It’s not mentioned in the description and, correct me if I’m wrong, wouldn’t that cover money made in “investments” [ie the stock market]?

Tax spending, not work.

If there were provisions on this bill from putting a tax on the necessities… there should be no tax on shelter, food, water, or anything relating to personal health… that way the purchasing power of poor to middle income families is not diminished by the 23% sales tax… I would also want the estate tax to stay in place and the income tax for the richest and wealthiest bracket.

The fact that if you live under poverty, you have to register as such and then receive either a monthly check or a “smart card” (probably a visa giftcard) with the value on it. I am sure a stigma will develop the same way it has around food stamps, that by using these smart cards or going to the bank to cash the check you are viewed as a negative in the greater community…

For this reason and the fact that without those provisions this tax is not progressive enough, I can not support this bill…

Capital gains are just taxes that producers remit and consumers of american goods pay.

The fairtax eliminates all production taxes, thus making America more attractive to produce in. The fairtax among many thing is a jobs promoting bill.

Present taxes are biased, unfair, and full of coercive language intended to change behavior.

There is no income or sale to pay tax on without consumers. Through the lens of consumption, consumers pay the cost of taxes. Taxing income fines consumers of “American made”. While most countries have a consumption tax to lower taxes embedded in exports and tax consumption of imports, we punish consumers for buying American. The fairtax taxes every ones consumption of domestic or imports the same at the register. No bias means more fair. The fairtax treats every one the same. Free trade is made more fair.

The fairtax rebate untaxes every families poverty level consumption, removes any need for deductions or exemptions, and returns roughly 90% of $350 billion and 7.4 billion hours preparing taxes to spend as the people desire, or with families, or building a business providing products and services people actually want, by eliminating tens of thousands of pages of coercive language.

Actually sir, with the Fair Tax the poorest people in america would benefit because people who are at or below the poverty line would get a waiver or a tax credit from the government for necesities like food. Add to that the fact that everytime one of the evil rich buy a yacht or something like that they will pay a tax on it. I urge you to read the Fair Tax book by Neil Boortz, please if after reading it you still don’t like the idea then that’s fine, but don’t listen to what the media has to say about it, they are uniinformed.

The only qualification for the rebate/(prebate) is that you are a citizen or legal resident. No family (rich or poor) pays taxes on their poverty level spending.

When you are living at
1 x the poverty level your effective tax rate is 0%
2 x the poverty level your effective tax rate is 11.5%
4 x the poverty level your effective tax rate is 17.25%
8 x the poverty level your effective tax rate is 21.125%

When we adopt the fairtax society determined that it does not want to tax your poverty level spending, the rebate is your money that you over payed.

Empty-headed partisan dismissal of good ideas within flawed bills solves nothing; rather it’s like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. This bill’s rebate provisions do give it a progressive flavor. Exchanging income for sales tax isn’t trading the evil we know for an evil we don’t. Sales taxes allow individuals freedom to choose their tax rate, according to what items they choose to buy. Better still, reporting becomes optional, better preserving privacy for those who choose NOT to file for a rebate.

Liberty itself is based on privacy and individual choice. This tax bill will do much to restore liberty in the USA… IF the IRS is also abolished. It’s critical that this bill be improved to clearly repeal ALL empowering legislation for the IRS. The 16th Amendment does not REQUIRE an income tax; it merely ALLOWS Congress to collect income taxes. So, Congress CAN abolish the IRS. Do it now. Just do it.

In case you’re wondering, I’m neither Republican nor Democrat.

All taxation is theft, but it seems a necessary evil in a civilized society. If we must accept taxation, it seems best to structure it in a way that individuals can control when, where and how much taxes they pay. This way the “pursuit of happiness” is least infringed.

If taxes are remited in the price of goods and services then whey did the cost of everything increase after George W. Bush cut taxes in 2001? Rent went up, health care costs went up, building a house got more expensive, but goods that came from China got cheaper. When businesses get tax cuts they raise their prices because, after all, they get to keep more of it. Then everybody acts surprised when consumer spending drops.

Question: if the sales tax is going to be administered (and therefore, I would hope primarily recieved) by the states, where do we intend to get money to pay off our deficit and fund our army? This bill gets presented at every new Congress and every time it gets shot down, because it’s unrealistic. It’s essentially nothing by eye candy, empty words so the Republicans can look like they’re supporting the average Joe when in reality they can’t manage a bill that’s actually doable.

Besides, why would people support a sales tax above an income tax? A income tax is more easily controlled. Implementing a sales tax would encourage black market and illegal trade. Every time the taxes jump on cigarettes it’s the Republicans who whine. It’s far, FAR too easy to cheat on such a tax and our state and federal legislature would quickly starve assuming all the countries we’re in debt too don’t make the jump to attack us when we can no longer pay them and no longer have a military.

No withholding taken, and no FICA tax, your 100% paycheck is bigger.
Consumer goods stop having the 20% hidden tax, so prices fall accordingly.
In place of a long list of exemptions,
legal residents receive a Prebate each month, to pay the tax on necessities.
EFFECTIVE TAX RATE is reduced from 23% according to spending vs saving.
TYPICAL FAMILY OF FOUR:
SPEND $22,050/yr = 0.00%
SPEND $25,000/yr = 2.74%
SPEND $40,000/yr = 10.34%
SPEND $70,000/yr = 16.25%
SPEND $100,000/yr = 17.83%
SPEND $500,000/yr = 21.99%
SPEND $ 1 Million/yr = 22.49%
NO forms to file or records to keep
Used goods are not taxed a 2nd time
Social Security/MediCare is 100% paid.

ShuRugal:
If you are single and do not itemize you probable are paying

$930 in Social Security
$217 in Medicare taxes and
$625 in income taxes
$1,772 in total
leaving you with a spendable income $13,228
your tax rate is 11.81%

Under the fairtax
$15,000 = 100% of your paycheck
$2,348 = Total annual rebate
$17,348 = Total spending income
$3,990.04 = 23% of $17,348 = taxes payed
$1,642.04 = 3,990.04 taxes payed – rebate = net, or effective taxes payed.
your effective tax rate is 10.9% = ($1,642.04 net taxes)/(15,000 income)

I don’t see how the fairtax hurts you any.

Keenen – You clearly have not read the bill nor do you understand the concept of the fair tax.

First off, USED GOODS are not taxed under the Fair Tax plan. So, that $3000 Honda Civic is still 3,000.

Secondly, Groceries are pre-bated. There wouldn’t be a tax on them.

I totally agree with you, if this bill passes there will be so many more jobs lost, so many more people on the streets, and many more people trying to get whatever gov. help they can receive to survive. So the tax payers money will be spent even more, we will be in debt even more. The cycle will continue to downfall if this bill passes. The only people that will remain in their homes unharmed by this bill will be the people that can afford to pay their increased taxes, and there are so many people that can’t afford it. This is depressing.

Misty, did you READ the bill? Explain to me how lifting a crushing burden off the backs of ordinary folk will cause job loss and “the cycle [to] continue to downfall [sic]”. Ordinary people will be LESS dependent upon employers for everything if we truly shift from income limitation to consumption limitation. Taxation is limitation, and people do the silliest things to reduce their taxes. Cash flows will improve for individuals because they’ll see their entire earnings then get to decide where to spend the money, rather than never even seeing a large chunk of their money because it was siphoned off before they were paid.

If this bill ever were to pass, it would create some hardships such as eliminating the Payroll Tax which helps funds social welfare programs. But then again, when it comes down to it (not to mention the fact the funds are almost completely out of money and full of bonds the government has paid to themself [which is the same as me taking $50 from a rainy day fund and writing an IOU to myself that says I’ll pay myself $50 later]), if I’m paying for someone else to live, I would rather be able to choose who, when, and how much I donate instead of being told to “redistribute the wealth”. After all, it was my money to begin with through a contract/agreement with my employer; not a promise I made to someone else. Then again, that’s just me wishing someone would ask me to pay their retirement instead of creating a law for it.
(continued)

It all sounds great. But I have a few questions.

How do they enforce this sale tax? how do we stop, say black market, especially online?

wouldn’t most people go to Mexico and Canada every year to buy luxury goods there instead in America and start buying much less groceries and gas in America daily?
If you are rich, you can afford to buy foreign luxury goods like cars to ship here. Don’t they already do that?

And even if people wouldn’t do that, isn’t 23% too little for our deficits? I kinda remember hearing that sale tax would have to be more like 30% to balance the budgets without any other tax before.

ShuRugal, the bill doesn’t propose an income tax, so your income tax bill would not rise. If you calculated the decreased tax you would pay on food, water etc., then add back in the rebates possible for those who choose to file, I think you would find your math works out differently. However, the bill doesn’t give enough specifics to do a proper calculation so I only ask you to keep in mind the value of liberty and privacy.

I really like the FairTax bill, but I can’t support it till they remove the part which repeals public financing for presidential elections. Public financing for elections should be a totally different debate. I want this bill to pass, but it needs to ride on its own merit and not have pet projects attached to it. Thoughts?

Source: http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-h25/text?version=ih&nid=t0:ih:82

In time this Tax idea would make the current tax code seem like a nursery rhyme.
It could not be enforced anyway you look at it. There will be a black market
for everything.

Do you remember when GM introduced “employee pricing”? How long did it take Ford, Chrysler Toyota and other auto manufacturers to match the program?

Do you remember when Wal-Mart introduced $4.00 prescription drugs? How long did it take all the other drug stores to match it? The how long did it take Publix Grocery stores to have antibiotics priced with a $0.00 copay?

It is all part of economics 101. All the stores want their market share of the sales. If one business lowers their price, the others will follow or go even lower!